Curse

Avarre · Jan 30, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakkara

[skill]defensive anthem[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill]
Because Aegis is not elite, and allows attack skills. It's an enchantment, yep, but that also means it can cover up another enchantment. Also, because of the 25! sec recharge of DA which doesn't fit for an ELITE.

Aegis is removable. It can be completely dominated by Mirror, or removed on spike.

Blocking physical attacks from hitting your offensive characters is ridiculously inconsequential. Physical attacks on your offensive characters are the least damaging.

In order to bring this on an off-monk character, which gives you defense when there is heavy pressure on your monks, you don't need to spec differently because it is in Leadership.

Your point about the recharge is completely invalid, Aegis is longer anyway if you want to force the comparison.

Quote:

[skill]song of restoration[/skill][skill]light of deliverance[/skill]
Because SoR does not have divine favor bonus, and has a 15 sec recharge, and the target has to use a skill before it takes effect (which he might not be able to do if knocked down or interrupted or dazed whatever)

This is additional, off-monk party support, which is significantly harder to shut down. It fits well into a defensive support template, while monk party healing suffers from 2s cast times.

Faer · Jan 30, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Defensive Anthem is one of the best Elite Skills Paragons have, so don't knock it.

Personally though, I think Infuse Health should be elite, and should then be classed as the most badass Elite Spell in the game. Seriously, wow. Infuse somebody and then WoH yourself moar, you jackasses.

GO ON. I DARE YOU TO STEP ONE FOOT INTO HA.

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 30, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Phoenix Tears:
[skill]Headbutt[/skill]-bad

[skill]Quivering Blade[/skill]-bad

[skill]"Charge!"[/skill]- an AMAZING skill. DEFINITELY not bad.

[skill]Shove[/skill]- useful in certain templates, not bad.

[skill]"Coward!"[/skill]- good skill after buff
----------------------

[skill]Rampage as One[/skill]- good skill (well, you know what i mean)

[skill]Strike as One[/skill]- bad

[skill]Expert's Dexterity[/skill]-bad

[skill]Oath Shot[/skill]- no way is this skill bad

[skill]Quicksand[/skill]- meh, bad
-----------------------

[skill]Boon Signet[/skill]- bad

[skill]Peace and Harmony[/skill]- <3

[skill]Healer's Convenant[/skill]- ok

[skill]Amity[/skill]- bad
----------------------

[skill]Cultist's Fervor[/skill]- saw it used once in an orders build, still bad

[skill]Lingering Curse[/skill]- bad

[skill]Order of Apostasy[/skill]- used in sway, wouldn't call it bad

[skill]Order of the Undead[/skill]- bad
--------------------

[skill]Psychic Distraction[/skill]- this is a very strong skill, especially in ha

[skill]Illusionary Weapon[/skill]- ^^,

[skill]Energy Drain[/skill]- used to be good

[skill]Tease[/skill]- stupid

[skill]Signet of Midnight[/skill]- GOOD
-------------------

[skill]Energy Boon[/skill]- meh

[skill]Ether Prism[/skill]- meh

[skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill]- good

[skill]Ether Renewal[/skill]- Z_Z

[skill]Mist Form[/skill]- Z_Z

[skill]Second Wind[/skill]- Z_Z
---------------------------

[skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill]- GOOD

[skill]Shadow Meld[/skill]- used in hb, still a pretty bad skill.
---------------------------

[skill]Xinrae's Weapon[/skill]- it kinda has potential, but meh
---------------------------

[skill]"Incoming!"[/skill]- good before nerf

[skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill]- [email protected]

[skill]"It's Just A Flesh Wound"[/skill]- pve

[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]- pve
-------------------

Shakkara · Jan 30, 2008, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Aegis is removable. It can be completely dominated by Mirror, or removed on spike.

Blocking physical attacks from hitting your offensive characters is ridiculously inconsequential. Physical attacks on your offensive characters are the least damaging.

In order to bring this on an off-monk character, which gives you defense when there is heavy pressure on your monks, you don't need to spec differently because it is in Leadership.

Your point about the recharge is completely invalid, Aegis is longer anyway if you want to force the comparison.

Inconsequential? [skill]pin down[/skill] [skill]crippling slash[/skill] [skill]ebon dust aura[/skill] [skill]apply poison[/skill] etc. Sure they should have some condition removal, but I wouldn't call it completely inconsequential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

This is additional, off-monk party support, which is significantly harder to shut down. It fits well into a defensive support template, while monk party healing suffers from 2s cast times.

I'd also say that a number of skills like PD, Shove, Oath Shot etc that you mentioned have no place in being called bad.

Agreed on Paragon survivability and resistance to shut down.

I did not make that other list with PD and Oath shot.

Avarre · Jan 30, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakkara

Inconsequential? [skill]pin down[/skill] [skill]crippling slash[/skill] [skill]ebon dust aura[/skill] [skill]apply poison[/skill] etc. Sure they should have some condition removal, but I wouldn't call it completely inconsequential.

The first three skills are almost never used. Cripshot is, and that can't be blocked.

Quote:

I did not make that other list with PD and Oath shot.

Ok, I need to pay better attention. I meant Pheonix Tears.

Olim Chill · Jan 30, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

The one I use regularly:
[skill]Toxic Chill[/skill]

Other favorties:
[skill]Virulence[/skill]
[skill]spiteful spirit[/skill]
[skill]jagged bones[/skill]
[skill]Melandru's Arrows[/skill]
[skill]word of healing[/skill]
[skill]mind burn[/skill]
[skill]mind freeze[/skill]
[skill]Crippling Slash[/skill]
[skill]skull crack[/skill]

Almost forgot...some bad:
[skill]Cultist's Fervor[/skill]
[skill]Peace and Harmony[/skill]
[skill]headbutt[/skill]
[skill]tease[/skill]

MagmaRed · Jan 30, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

I'll list only the bad ones, because al others are either very good or good enough to be called an Elite Skill...

[skill]Headbutt[/skill]

[skill]Quivering Blade[/skill]

[skill]"Charge!"[/skill]

[skill]Shove[/skill]

[skill]"Coward!"[/skill]
----------------------

[skill]Rampage as One[/skill]

[skill]Oath Shot[/skill]

-----------------------

[skill]Boon Signet[/skill]

----------------------

[skill]Lingering Curse[/skill]

[skill]Order of Apostasy[/skill]

[skill]Order of the Undeath[/skill]
--------------------

[skill]Psychic Distraction[/skill]

[skill]Illusionary Weapon[/skill]

[skill]Energy Drain[/skill]

[skill]Tease[/skill]

[skill]Signet of Midnight[/skill]
-------------------

[skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill]

[skill]Mist Form[/skill]

---------------------------

[skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill]

---------------------------

[skill]Xinrae's Weapon[/skill]
---------------------------

[skill]"Incoming!"[/skill]

[skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill]

[skill]"It's Just A Flesh Wound."[/skill]

[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]
-------------------

That are imo only the bad ones, not all ones I think which need really buffs

Wow..... just wow. You need to learn why and how skills are used. Sometimes a skill is used as a secondary, and sometimes a skill is used for a specific purpose. For example: Ether Prodigy may see little to no use in PvE, but watch some GvG and see how many E/Mo players use it for flag running Heal Party spamming. Headbutt and Shove are skills, and cannot be blocked. Plague Touch Daze and knockdowns are extremely useful. Stop making yourself look stupid, and learn how the game works. All of the skills I left in your quote are skills that can be good, or are GREAT.

yesitsrob · Jan 30, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

DA and SoR are not bad elites. Why have they been called bad elites?

Because people are bad?

Im pretty sure I had a page long argument on unofficial wiki about Defensive Anthem with people that apparently don't play Guild Wars (or probably shouldn't play it)

MarlinBackna · Jan 30, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I'll name a couple of my favorites...
[skill]Dragon Slash[/skill] - How could you not like this skill w/ [skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]? I like running this w/ [skill]Conjure Frost[/skill] and its great.

[skill]Cruel Spear[/skill] - When I'm feeling offensive w/ my paragon, this is the skill I usually use. Such wonderful damage...

[skill]Spirit Light Weapon[/skill] - It's short recharge makes this skill worthwhile IMO. I can get lots of people in the party with this easily.

Just a few of my favorites. I am throughly surprised on how many people dissed
[skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill] and [skill]Song of Restoration[/skill]. Honestly, these skills are staple elites for the Motivation-agon. When I run defensive on my paragon, these unstrippables are the best, period. There aren't really any other Paragon skills that are as good as those two...
And yes, blocking for your front line does not extremely matter, for there are many ways for people who want to attack them to get through (i.e. [skill]Crippling Shot[/skill] or [skill]Swift Spear[/skill] )

Scary Raebbit · Jan 30, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

[skill]Headbutt[/skill] Kinda good with Plague Touch
[skill]Quivering Blade[/skill] Better than Headbutt with Plague Touch
[skill]"Charge!"[/skill] Wrong. Three Wars
[skill]Shove[/skill] + Shadow Walk + Crushing Blow and three monks with Holy Strike and Dash
[skill]"Coward!"[/skill] Good on a Paragon or FGJ Sword guy I guess
----------------------
[skill]Rampage as One[/skill] uh...
[skill]Expert's Dexterity[/skill] Not as bad as Strike as One
[skill]Oath Shot[/skill] Guess you've never seen a Ranger
-----------------------
[skill]Peace and Harmony[/skill] Better options
[skill]Healer's Covenant[/skill] Can work, but not that great
----------------------
[skill]Lingering Curse[/skill] Better options out there
[skill]Order of Apostasy[/skill] again, uh....
[skill]Order of Undeath[/skill] I guess you must run Flesh Golem
--------------------
[skill]Psychic Distraction[/skill] Maybe you need to find a good Mesmer
[skill]Energy Drain[/skill] Could be good
[skill]Tease[/skill] Bad
[skill]Signet of Midnight[/skill] Really bad
-------------------
[skill]Ether Prodigy[/skill] More Heal Party
[skill]Ether Renewal[/skill] Nerfed down cause it was too good
[skill]Mist Form[/skill] Helps me farm Zaishen lolol
---------------------------
[skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill] Stronger than a lot of other options for a Sin
[skill]Shadow Meld[/skill] Hero Battles lol
---------------------------
[skill]"Incoming!"[/skill] Was too good
[skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill] Still good, but no LoD
[skill]"It's Just A Flesh Wound."[/skill] Can be good, but there are a lot more and better options

mr_groovy · Jan 30, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

For the people that still don't get [skill]Rampage as one[/skill].

Thumper a go go!.(R/W hammer build).

Kula · Jan 30, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

This thread only serves to make Izzy salivate on what he'd like to hit next.

Go on and give him a bullseye for the most popular elites, lolz

I kid, I kid...

Age · Jan 30, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

How is Dfy Pain a bad elite as it is good for farming who need armour stacking as it provides you with 20 or 40 addition armour?It is better than Endure Pain which is some what bugged and why is Charge being labeled as a bad skill.I see Whithdraw Hexs I am not sure if that is bad or not as it is party wide and used with GoLE wouldn't be to bad more like heal party for hexs.I don't have it so I can't say exactly.

I still some uses for LoD and E-Drain in PvE that is anyway some said there are bad elites which are not bad at all maybe not great.

makosi · Jan 30, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Defy Pain is a bad skill because warriors don't need additional armour. Even if you do need + armour for a farming build, use Dolyak Signet and have your Elite skill for killing stuff or for a real survival skill.

The +health isn't on demand and will end anyway and it drinks your adrenalin which could be spent on killing stuff.

Charge is good in certain situations but there are often better alternatives available if you want a speed boost.

Cherng Butter · Jan 30, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakkara

Suck:

[skill]triple chop[/skill]

[skill]battle rage[/skill]
Because its a stance and thus doesn't allow any attack speed increases.

[skill]warrior's endurance[/skill]
Again is a stance, thus cannot be used with attack speed increasing stances.

[skill]shove[/skill]
Lose all adrenaline for a silly knockdown and some crappy damage? 20 sec recharge? This shouldnt even be elite.

[skill]"coward!"[/skill]
You need to get 6! adrenaline first and that takes a while if someone's kiting you. Energy would be better, and otherwise I'd take Bull's Charge.

[skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill]
I'll take Aegis thanks, at least that doesn't get removed BY ITSELF.

[skill]Song of restoration[/skill]
Pathetic heal amount, especially since a paragon doesn't have divine favor, 15 sec recharge ftl.

[skill]Cautery signet[/skill]

What? Triple Chop supplements the AoE and has great +damage...Battle Rage isn't good, but it certainly isn't terrible. Warrior Endurance has great synergy with a Scythe and quick activation attacks. Shove has some great niche uses. Coward! was recently buffed to 4 adrenaline and is great on a Paragon, and pretty sweet on a Warrior for some funny anti-kiting. Defensive Anthem is run on Paragons constantly...So is Song of Restoration, it's a pretty nice party heal. Cautery ain't bad either, all you have to do is pry off that burning...

Blu · Jan 30, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Triple Chop is pretty bad compared to the other viable warrior elites imo (evis. DSlash, etc.)

Age · Jan 30, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Defy Pain is a bad skill because warriors don't need additional armour. Even if you do need + armour for a farming build, use Dolyak Signet and have your Elite skill for killing stuff or for a real survival skill.

The +health isn't on demand and will end anyway and it drinks your adrenalin which could be spent on killing stuff.

Charge is good in certain situations but there are often better alternatives available if you want a speed boost.

Defy doesn't slow you movements down like Doylak does and using DSlash or Evis. for killing stuff I don't think so.

Charge is a good party speed boost as a sword Warrior can use it.

Cherng Butter · Jan 30, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Defy doesn't slow you movements down like Doylak does and using DSlash or Evis. for killing stuff I don't think so.

Or...you could just forget about adding health and armor to a Warrior...

And are you saying Dragon Slash or Eviscerate don't kill things?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu

Triple Chop is pretty bad compared to the other viable warrior elites imo (evis. DSlash, etc.)

The AoE is nice for PvE, at least, where spiking with Eviscerate is less valuable.

mr_groovy · Jan 30, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

[skill]triple chop[/skill] is excellent for farming. W/me UW run anyone? >.>

Age · Jan 30, 2008, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

Or...you could just forget about adding health and armor to a Warrior...

And are you saying Dragon Slash or Eviscerate don't kill things

That is not what I said.